Curse

Riotgear · Aug 15, 2007, 04:29 AM // 04:29

Dismiss gets away with it. Using it for hex removal would allow veils to stay up. Healing Light is just bad because you need 12+ healing to get decent efficiency out of it, and if you're running 12+ healing, you use LoD. Healing Light is also a dumb heal with no utility, Blessed Light has utility as its main pitch, so they're not really comparable.

Zuranthium · Aug 15, 2007, 08:40 AM // 08:40

Yes, well, perhaps Healing Light should become the ELITE Dismiss Conditions. It has no purpose at the moment anyway.

HEALING LIGHT

Energy Cost: 5
Activation Time: 3/4
Recharge: 3

Heal target ally for 40 + (Attribute Rank * 5) and remove one condition. If that ally was under the effects of an enchantment, you gain 0.......2 (at attribute rank 12) energy.

Now, the build for it that should make Moriz happy:

Mo/A - 12 Healing, 11 Protection, 11 Divine Favor, 5 Shadow Arts

RoF
Spirit Bond
Healing Light
Guardian
Purge Signet
Holy Veil/Remove Hex (this really needs to be moved to the Healing line)
Dark Escape
Return

HURRAY???

EDIT: (that version of Healing Light may be overpowered....but you get the idea)

~Z

Thomas.knbk · Aug 15, 2007, 08:48 AM // 08:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

There is one slight change and that is to shield guardian as I have as been trying it out as an alternative.What I would to see is a longer recharge time say 15 to 20 sec. and duration as well.This is so I am not spamming it draining my mana.

It would still end on the next block. As it is, Shield Guardian is a 10e reversal of fortune.

DreamWind · Aug 15, 2007, 09:00 AM // 09:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zuranthium

The difference is that they could have found ways to make the skills useful for solo Rits and not overpowered for Rit Spike.

Instead, they completely killed the class.

Am I the only one who doesn't care that rits are getting nerfed into the ground?

Honestly, the things have been a broken class for 90-100% of their existence. They were a bad concept from the beginning (ever since rit lords and now spikers) and they made half of the people I know quit Guild Wars. I really don't care if they die.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seamus Finn

What killed blight was nightfall and elites that did something.

Bingo. The thing that makes Blessed Light bad is the Nightfall power creep. Nothing more or less. Take out Nightfall and it sees play again.

Honestly I'm not sure why most of this thread is talking about buffing Blight though. If you want to buff skills to make them equal with other skills, than be my guest. But Anet has had a bad history of overbuffing skills, so I would rather not go that route.

Riotgear · Aug 15, 2007, 09:45 AM // 09:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zuranthium

Yes, well, perhaps Healing Light should become the ELITE Dismiss Conditions. It has no purpose at the moment anyway.

It's closer in role to WoH, but it's running into the same problem as WoH: There are better elites with more utility for prot and GoH kind of negates the need for a healing elite, and healing-heavy monks are better off running LoD.

In that regard, I'd say that Healing Light doesn't need to be touched until/unless the meta hits a point where LoD isn't mandatory, and even then it's sketchy: With GoH playable on prot, why do you want to spend your elite slot on a dumb heal? At least Blessed Light can still wind up on a prot hybrid.

Quote:

But Anet has had a bad history of overbuffing skills, so I would rather not go that route.

Reactive defense and recovery are probably the safest thing to overbuff because they're tactically the weakest anyway. That is, they aren't going to make shitty players do any better, as opposed to point-and-click spells that wind up fuelling massive spikes, brainless C-spacebar offensive toys, or proactive defenses that wind up making everything unkillable with plenty of room for error.

LoD is probably overpowered, for example, but nobody really gives a shit, because a bad monk with LoD is still going to suck.

Zuranthium · Aug 15, 2007, 03:45 PM // 15:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riotgear

In that regard, I'd say that Healing Light doesn't need to be touched until/unless the meta hits a point where LoD isn't mandatory, and even then it's sketchy: With GoH playable on prot, why do you want to spend your elite slot on a dumb heal? At least Blessed Light can still wind up on a prot hybrid.

The Healing Light bar I just created *is* a prot hybrid. It simply combines GoH and Dismiss Condition into one skill, with the added benefit of gaining 2 energy if the target was enchanted. I feel that is most definitely an Elite-worthy skill (even maybe a tad overpowered). The bar I created does exactly what Moriz wanted for a Blessed Light character.

Honestly, LoD builds are prot hybrids too. RoF, Infuse, SB/Prot Spirit, LoD, Guardian, Dismiss Condition, Holy Veil, Return is a common LoD bar now. Only 2 Healing spells on that bar....but 4 Prot. Some substitute Guardian and Return with Aegis and GoLE (still 4 Prot). At most, Signet of Rejuv or Dwayna's Kiss is put on the bar and then you've got 3 Heal/3 Prot.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riotgear

It's closer in role to WoH, but it's running into the same problem as WoH: There are better elites with more utility for prot.

WoH needs to be changed so that it can act as both Infuse Health and your standard heal. Something like decreasing the recharge to 1 second and making it cast twice as fast if your target was under 50% health.

EDIT: Oops, meant to say Return for the Monk bar, not Escape.

~Z

Riotgear · Aug 15, 2007, 04:04 PM // 16:04

The point is that if you're running someone with that high of a stat investment in Healing, it's probably going to be for LoD/Infuse, maybe also Kiss/Comfort and Seed for HA, everyone else can use Gift+Prot.

Zuranthium · Aug 15, 2007, 05:57 PM // 17:57

Yes, clearly. But if Word of Healing was given the correct changes it could become useful for teams where you don't need LoD as much (perhaps you've got a Ritualist with Protective Was Kaolai, for example). You still want one of your Monks to have an Infuse-type ability, after all.

~Z

Thomas.knbk · Aug 15, 2007, 08:54 PM // 20:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zuranthium

teams where you don't need LoD as much

lol

Protective Was Kaolei has a 20 second recharge.

Zuranthium · Aug 15, 2007, 09:36 PM // 21:36

So? The lower amount of party-wide healing is made up for with more efficient spot heals and the extra skill slot your Healing monk gets by using WoH instead of both LoD and Infuse. It just comes down to player preference. Having more options is the goal.

~Z

Riotgear · Aug 16, 2007, 04:12 AM // 04:12

Party-wide healing hasn't really been "optional" since.... uh....

neoflame · Aug 16, 2007, 04:25 AM // 04:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riotgear

Party-wide healing hasn't really been "optional" since.... uh....

IIRC Heal Party first came to prominence with the Ether Prodigy buff, which was 29 September 2005. So... yeah, a long time.

Byron · Aug 16, 2007, 06:37 AM // 06:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zuranthium

Having more options is the goal.

The healing potential of LoD is 600 health (less divine favor for self-heal). That's 120 health per energy. Even when only 2 people are affected, its 150 health gain for 5 energy, which aint too shabby. In an increasingly pressure-based meta, I don't really see how a team could opt out of it.

twicky_kid · Aug 16, 2007, 06:51 AM // 06:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byron

The healing potential of LoD is 600 health (less divine favor for self-heal). That's 120 health per energy. Even when only 2 people are affected, its 150 health gain for 5 energy, which aint too shabby. In an increasingly pressure-based meta, I don't really see how a team could opt out of it.

Only if you have a heal party emo can you opt out of LoD. Even then HP can't be spammed forever like LoD.

Zuranthium · Aug 16, 2007, 06:58 AM // 06:58

It's certainly very strong, which speaks to changes that need to happen to make other options viable. I think Divine Healing should become a Heal Party ability, for example. If your team has a Heal Party substitute or two and most of your team has a self-heal, WoH should be the better Elite for that team. However much WoH needs to be improved for that to happen, let it be so.

~Z

Riotgear · Aug 16, 2007, 07:33 AM // 07:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

Even then HP can't be spammed forever like LoD.

Prodigy-HP would have the new GoLE to play with if it got remade, so it probably could be spamming HP just as much as LoD if not more. There are other factors forcing it into play.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zuranthium

However much WoH needs to be improved for that to happen, let it be so.

Gift simply made it kind of obsolete (which is, IMO, a good thing), and LoD is going to stay on top until better party-heal options become available. There simply isn't any room for a single-target heal of any sort in the current meta, ZB is potentially better than WoH and people still refuse to run it 8-player formats. SoR, LoD, RC and SoD all provide too much utility to get punted by a simplistic single-target heal.

As skills come out, some things fall by the wayside not because they're too weak due to a simple problem with the numbers on the skill, but because they're just conceptually obsolete or poor. Plague Touch comes to mind.

Because their problems lie in concept rather than in raw power, it may make sense to just let them die or remain niche skills unless they can be reworked. If something seems like a viable, interesting concept that would prove useful if it wasn't simply underpowered, then it may deserve a buff. Blessed Light is one such skill. Even Withdraw Hexes might be such a skill. Word of Healing, at this point, is not. I don't really see any demand or need for an elite big single-target heal at the moment.

Zuranthium · Aug 16, 2007, 09:19 AM // 09:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riotgear

Because their problems lie in concept rather than in raw power, it may make sense to just let them die or remain niche skills unless they can be reworked.

Did you miss the part where I talked about how WoH should be changed so that it can act as both a standard heal AND Infuse on a Monk's bar?

~Z

Andrew Patrick · Aug 16, 2007, 07:28 PM // 19:28

Just FYI, I am including a note about this thread in our Community Summary again since you are still posting great feedback.

Seamus Finn · Aug 16, 2007, 07:36 PM // 19:36

To get back to the balances made:

I am not sure I am a fan of the escape buff. It is actually seeing play in gvg because it makes the most durable template being run in gvgs nearly impossible to kill. Rangers are dropping Burning Arrow for screaming shot and taking the elite natural stride. Is this really something that is good for the game? I am on the fence at the moment.

Ensign · Aug 16, 2007, 07:42 PM // 19:42

I actively encourage all opposing Rangers to drop the elites that have made them threatening and replace them with an elite that makes them great at running away.